There are so many things that I would normally deem “Not my business” that I feel like maybe are my business because it may or may not affect DS.
For example FDad has never done anything to facilitate our or DS’s relationship with his parents. I emailed his parents when DS was a week old to invite them to consider themselves true grandparents, as their son hadn’t really explained our attitudes on open adoption to them.
We have formed a good relationship with them, and during our discussions with them have described our feelings towards each other as that of in laws, and they are simply DS’s grandparents.
FDad has never visited with his parents, planning to leave or arrive a day or two outside of their visits, and when we visited them we had to make a side trip for FDad as he wouldn’t go to their home.
We are now trying to arrange Spring get togethers, and once again he is talking about visiting within a week of his parents, but no mention of actually coming with them.
I understand wanting some visits alone, but all of them? It’s been 3 years! DS has seen his FDad and his grandparents in the same room once, for breakfast. They were leaving and FDad was arriving the same day.
He is questioning family relationships to a certain extent now (as much a just turned 3 year old can), and I want him to see healthy, happy families, and that all of us are “one” family, his family. I find that hard to do with all these separated visits.
On a more selfish note, we already have to separate FMom and FDad’s visits, and that’s okay because they usually aren’t close together due to varying schedules, but having to account for 4 different busy families schedules (ours, hers, his, and his parents) several times a year is getting difficult and stressful.
Is it okay to insist he combine at least one visit with his folks this year?
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This is very interesting.
If you could get everyone together it would be an awesome photo-op.
Is there something that keeps the first dad from being around his own parents? I feel like there’s a part of the story missing somewhere.
I’m with Cindy — I feel like there’s part of the story missing. Why does FDad not want to visit with his parents? Do they get along? Is their tension around the adoption?
I feel for you in that I appreciate how hard it must be to juggle visits among family members. (Not that this is the same but there was a while when my divorced parents couldn’t be at the same event and it made every family gathering a headache — they’re over it now, thank goodness.)
I don’t know if there’s much you CAN do. As for what your son is seeing, I’d say he’s seeing the reality of what happens when family members don’t work things out and even if it isn’t the ideal you want him to see, it could be a cautionary tale. He knows that his family members love him but as he gets older maybe he’ll also learn that relationships take work and compromise or else things can fall apart. That’s a valuable lesson, too. Our kids’ lives can’t be perfect but that’s not necessarily a bad thing, you know?
We have been unable to figure out exactly why FDad avoids his parents. However it should be noted he doesn’t appear to have deep relationships with anyone. He didn’t tell his parents about DS until a week before he was born, and then only at FMoms insistence that they be informed they were to be grandparents (she may have even threatened to tell them herself if he didn’t. She felt really strongly about it).
Before we met them, he made it seem they were very controlling and judgmental, but we have seen no evidence of that. Now, we aren’t their child, so have no way of knowing what their home life was like, but we have had very frank discussions with them on many controversial topics and found them quite reasonable and able to agree to disagree respectfully, and their other child is gay (which is very much against their beliefs) yet they have a good relationship with that child anyway.
His parents love him a lot, and often lament his distance. Again, we have had only glimpses into the dynamics of their relationship, but they have been open, honest, and welcoming to us, and great grandparents to DS…seems to me that he could manage a few days a year with them. Don’t we all sometimes “grin and bear it” for the good of family harmony?
Anonymous, sounds like he has other stuff going on. Have you talked to him directly about it? Do you find him (FDad) difficult in any way?
I think this is one of those things where the only behavior we can control is our own and you may be stuck with his choices up to a point. I mean, you can’t control whether or not he gets along with his parents but you can set limits on the visits if you really need/want to. I guess then the thing to consider is whether or not being firm about what you expect (for him to double up with his parents on a visit or two) is going to hurt your relationship with him. And the only way you can really get a sense of that is by sitting down and talking to him. It sounds like you have a strong foundation on which to start the discussion so I hope that you’re able to come to some kind of compromise that works for everyone.
I personally believe he is personality disordered, and I find it difficult to have meaningful conversations with him because I get angry at his deflections, transferences, and manipilation attempts. I have unfairly put most of the communication with him on DH’s shoulders as I don’t trust myself not to go off on him.
We have simply done the best we can with what little he offers of himself…I dislike such muddling in the extreme and that just fuels my anger. Just answered my own question didn’t I? I need to find a way to compartmentalize and not lose my temper.
Guess I just need to have the discussion and keep it on the one single point of the upcoming visit. I will call this week regarding the visit and see what we can work out.
I would try to talk to FDad and explain that you would like to make the visit together just for schedule sake. See how he responds to that.
this man sounds like a very close-minded person.
To some people, there’s no talking sense into them,
you can always try.
I would try and find a way to make him think that getting everyone together is HIS idea.
Thanks for the thoughts all.
Debbie, your idea may be the best. Our schedules dramatically changed this year as DS is not home full time now. DH is running a business outside the house as of just recently. DH takes DS to work half days some days, then one of his grandmothers watches him the other half, or he goes to one of the grandmas a whole day, sometimes grandma comes here..we base it around everyone’s convenience.
Anyway, FDad has never been comfortable caring for DS alone, and since we don’t have a parent at home full time now, I wonder if I should say the new schedule doesn’t lend itself to multiple weeks of visitors as it used to? It wouldn’t be a lie.
I hope you find a solution that works for your family.
I have to say that I’d rather have less visits per year than share the visit time with my mother. I feel awkward at visits. I want to interact with C and talk to her parents. If my mother were there, she would be the focus. She’d scoop C up so I wouldn’t get to interact as much because she would be playing with C. She’d dominate the conversation. We might argue quietly or step outside and argue loudly. The way I act at a visit would be drastically changed by her mere presence.
I’m a different person around my mother. Not that she’s a bad person…but just being near her changes me. There’s baggage that I can’t overcome. I don’t like it and frequently, I avoid her. I would prefer that Baby’s parents not see that change in me and don’t feel a child should have to try to understand it…so I would skip visits over having them with my mother there.
If Baby’s parents said, “you can have visits with your mom there or not at all”, I would choose not at all. And I would be very hurt that they felt visits with my mom were more important than with me.
Could you just have a visit with FDad and then with FMom and leave the grandparents out of it this year if that’s too much?
Good luck!
Does your mother treat Baby as her grandchild, and have a relationship/visits with Baby and Baby’s parents, separate from you? I ask because our situations may be too different.
We have much more contact with them than with FDad. They email, call, schedule and plan visits ahead of time, send cards and gifts for holidays. He is their only grandchild, and likely to be their only grandchild for a long time, if not forever. DS adores them and I think he deserves a relationship with them as he has with his other grandparents. I can’t tell them to cancel the visit they have had planned for 6 months.
It’s certainly possible that our situations are too different for an accurate comparison…really, everyone’s situations are vastly different. I just gave my view point of what I would do if asked to choose visits with my mother present or no visits at all. I don’t think you even mentioned such an ultimatum…
Right now, only you can decide of the FDad relationship or the grandparent relationship is more important. Perhaps you won’t have to choose…but I think it’s important to consider which you would pick because the FDad may not be willing to do combined visits. If not, then what?
…and yes, I just avoided telling more about our situation because my comfort level only goes so far…
I appreciate your thoughts, Aderyn, a lot. They have made me think.
It’s hard because I don’t like FDad. He does nothing to maintain communication (rarely calls because he “doesn’t like talking” and doesn’t even have his own phone, doesn’t have a computer and won’t go to the library, never writes, doesn’t let us know when he moves, he doesn’t plan anything ahead of time just “plays it by ear”), when we do see him -and we allow plenty of alone time- he just sort of stares at DS and doesn’t talk or interact or play at all, even though DS tries to initiate…and it makes me angry. Yeah, I am pretty much trying to force him to be considerate and involved which isn’t going to happen by force.
As Dawn says, I can only control my actions. So, I will just be considerate towards him, and let him visit whenever he can, and visit him when we’re in the area, and keep up our end of things by sending pics etc. when I manage to get his address. I always speak well of him to DS, and show him his pics and remind him of his visits.
The saddest thing is DH and I will only maintain communication ourselves until DS is old enough to choose what kind and how much contact he wants to have. FDad made it clear he wants no relationship with us like we have created with his parents and Fmom and her family, basically extended family. I have no idea yet how DS will feel, but FDad isn’t laying a very good foundation for them to build on, IMO.
Update. Spoke to him yesterday after leaving a message last week. I didn’t mention his parents visit except in the context of making him aware that we have no plans until then. He stated he planned to come visit the 1-3 of March and I said that was fine.
Thanks for listening to me vent all.