They were never even really a committed couple, though they were together over 3 years. Fdad says the same thing about the current 3 year live-together relationship, that it’s not serious or committed.

“Perhaps this father had issues while dating your son;s mother and during her pregnancy. Perhaps he has grown and risen above that. He is after all, interested apparently in maintaining this contact!”

We have had some issues with him ourselves, unrelated to his time with fmom. Mostly with us his unpleasant traits tend to manifest as a refusal to make solid plans, but then get sulky when you don’t plan everything around and for him, and a refusal to share of himself meaningfully. He doesn’t like to talk on the phone (doesn’t even own his own phone, we have to leave messages for him with his girlfriend) or write letters and doesn’t have a computer. We hear from him when he wants a visit, and on some holidays. So it’s not ideal, but I will grant that he does maintain contact and arranges visits.

Also, he mentioned his great new job several times, but didn’t take us to the restaurant he managed. Also, he didn’t introduce us to the obvious friend who was our waitress at a restaurant we did go to. After we left, he took his parents to his restaurant, though. I have reason to believe he hasn’t told anyone but his girlfriend about DS…I hate thinking that DS might be considered some shameful secret

Anyway, yes, I am leaving room for all kinds of possibilities, and hope things work out okay, I am just a concerned Mama whose little man stands to maybe get hurt, ya know?

“How will I explain that the guy you have fun with and you like is really pathologically self absorbed? How do I not talk badly about fdad, yet still be truthful? Should I just turn the explaining over to fmom?”

As I read it, I was relating it to divorce. To bad mouth a child’s progenitor is to say bad things about the child. They internalize all of it. If is the same sex parent it’s worse and if not,they cna become misogynist or man bashers. Being subjected to negativity about a parent can cause eating disorders, anxiety, depression, anger…you name it!

They DO figure it out on their own! As long as he is not being placed in any danger on visits, just have patience and trust in that. And even if and when he starts to express to you some of his negative observations, just say: “I’m sorry to hear that.” Validate his feelings of hurt or disappointment but avoid agreeing to the point of gossiping.

ALSO…people do change! Perhaps this father had issues while dating your son;s mother and during her pregnancy. Perhaps he has grown and risen above that. He is after all, interested apparently in maintaining this contact! he and your con’s mother have their own “divorce” issues and you know what they say: there are THREE sides to every story – his, hers and the truth!

If new siblings result from new marriages of these people in your son’s life – that will be a whole other emotional issue to deal with. Why are they able to raise THOSE subsequent kids and not him. Watch out for unspoken hurt and angry feelings!

Mirah Riben, http://AdvocatePublications.com

FamilyPreservation.blogspot.com

As you said our relationship with fdad, is not fmoms relationship with him, which is not his parents relationship with him, and none of them are DS’s relationship with him. I am really trying to keep that all in mind, AND protect DS, and keep things civil. What an emotional juggling act!

This particular visit caused a few concerns to come up again for me (sigh), as it was the first time we met fdad’s girlfriend who adds a whole layer of secrecy and past drama. It’s hard to separate things out, ya know?

We will muddle through I am sure, I appreciate everyone’s advice and sharing.

I think you *can* use some of the same language and add to it as your son grows. So you can say that fdad wasn’t able to care for him because he wasn’t — not in the way that fmom wanted. You can begin age appropriately by saying, “You know how mommy and daddy do XYZ [read books at bedtime every night, have family dinner time, whatever]? fdad just wasn’t able to do that and fmom knew this and she wanted you to have a mommy and a daddy who could do that so that is why she chose us to be your parents.” As he gets older, you can be more clear about the nature of fdad’s choices without bashing HIM — you can bash his behavior. It’s a subtle difference but to my mind, an important one. We all make choices in our lives and it’s unfortunate fdad has made the choices he has. So when son asks, “WHY couldn’t he read books at bedtime every night?” You can say, “Because fdad has made different choices and one of his choices is to do XYZ. That’s his choice but fmom wanted you to have stories at bedtime.” etc.

We do not see fdad in our own adoption and explaining that has had its challenges. I use the “poor choices” line because I hope (but doubt) that someday he will make GOOD choices. I want to keep the door open to that but I also want to talk about our family values and how fdad is outside of that and how being outside of that is a decision he’s made. It’s a chance to talk about our values and Pennie’s values in a way that’s matter-of-fact but not bashing. I mean, I tell her we’re sad about not having him in our lives and I never say he’s a bad guy — I say he makes bad choices.

One thing I would caution — I know you and fmom are very close and I know you’ve had your own negative experiences with fdad but remember that their relationship is between them. Obviously your heart is going to be with fmom in many ways but as much as you can, try to stay neutral for your son’s sake. That’s not to say just nod blankly but remember that there are fourteen zillion sides to every story and your loyalty to fmom and relationship with her in some ways needs to stay separate from your experience with fdad. Because ultimately your son is going to have to figure out HIS relationship with his fdad and that may look different than either you or fmom want it to look but it’s his to figure out. Our job as parents is to give our kids tools to figure things out and protect themselves but not to dictate their feelings about any of it, you know? I have thought about this a lot in our own adoption. I’m not saying stay neutral about his behavior either. Ugh. This is hard to explain.

Ok, in my parents’ divorce? My mom had a lot of reason to be really mad at my dad not the least of which was the way he treated the three of us. (Honestly, it was the only thing she was mad about.) But the weight of her anger made it harder to figure out how *I* felt about it and as I made peace with it, the weight was even harder to bear. Even though her anger was justified and was about her protecting me, it still became my burden. I needed to make my own sense of it. You sound really (understandably!) angry at fdad but just be aware that that is yours and fmom’s anger is hers.

My thoughts are with you guys.

Also, Fmom could have, wanted to, and absolutely would have raised DS if Fdad had not shown these true colors. She felt he was too toxic to be her beloved son’s father…and she didn’t want him to be in a position to use DS in his manipulations against her or his parents or whomever he felt like getting something from that day…she felt the best way was to legally remove Fdad from the situation, and the only way to do that was through adoption.

So, unfortunately, none of the common “they couldn’t care for you” type reasons apply here. That’s why I am having a hard time with it. Fmom is having a hard time too, she and I have discussed it many times and simply don’t know what to say to him . We are painfully aware of the possibility of DS self identifying as “bad” if we are too honest, but also don’t want DS to find out the hard way that FDad isn’t who he portrays himself to be.

So, my thought is that to the extent that you can focus on the positive about the bio father, you do so. You tell your son that his bio mother didn’t feel as though she could care for him and neither could his bio father. (The law would have allowed the bio father to have the child presumably if he could care for it and wanted to. He was the bio father and had certain rights, no?) But that they love him. He will learn, little by little, the truth about his bio parents. There is no need for you to interject your opinions to the extent that they are negative. Your son might think that he will somehow end up being “bad” because is bio father is. I would focus on the good. And allow the bio mother to say whatever she will. And keep lines of communication open about the bio father with your son. “How did you like your visit? How do you feel about your bio father?” You will be able to guide him to some degree to the correct conclusions as he comes to see things, I would imagine.

I totally focus on the good about my daughter’s mother. She is family and I love her and, as I would not say much negative about other family members, I would not say much negative about her. My daughter’s bio father is not in the picture. When the time comes, I will say that he loved her and wanted her, but could not care for her so his rights were terminated by the court. (My daughter was in foster care.) I may say that his relationship with her mother did not last; it was not a good relationship. And then let my daughter’s mother fill in whatever details she wants. I understand that my daughter’s bio father was smart. I will focus on that. He didn’t have any education, but that is irrelevant. And we can find him if we need to.